Are You Chasing After the Running Mind to Catch It? | Dhamma Siddhi Thero

මුල් සිංහල වීඩියෝව සඳහා Play කරන්න

Are You Chasing After the Running Mind to Catch It? | Dhamma Siddhi Thero

Layperson: Venerable Sir, when I am watching as an observer, what I see is also seen in the mind, isn't it, Venerable Sir? And then, the mind runs at a very high speed. It's impossible to catch it then. I can't see the "scenes," Venerable Sir. It runs here and there; I can't find it to see it. It's just so fast. So, Venerable Sir, should I just let it go without trying to watch it? What should be done?

Monk: No, that's not it. If you can't see the things that appear, then there's nothing for you to get troubled about, is there? There's no problem.

Layperson: When I say I can't see, it's that the mind is running at a phenomenal speed. In that, there is a "me," and there is also something that "I" want. While that is there, the mind races with great speed, like when you're on a speeding train, the scenery on the other side just flashes by. It goes to that side, it goes to this side. Only occasionally can I catch it at one point; otherwise, the scene is gone. The thoughts… the mind is that fast. Yes, if I try to catch it and watch it, I have to make a huge effort.

Monk: I never told you to "see" it, did I?

Layperson: Yes, Venerable Sir, you didn't tell me to "catch" it.

Monk: Yes. I said to watch the film, but I never told you to go and grab the screen or the projector or to catch anything like that.

Layperson: No, Venerable Sir, you didn't. And I can't catch it. Nor do I need to catch it.

Monk: And we don't tell you to. What we say is, be a spectator. Then, you see as much as you can see. You know that you are seeing, and the story ends there. When you see the things you can't grasp, you see a speed, don't you? Within that speed? You see a swift activity or a process. You saw that, and the story ends there.

So, according to the Dhamma, at what point do we accumulate kamma (karma)? It's when we descend into an object, become engrossed in it, travel up and down and down and up within it, and keep developing it, right? That is when these mental formations (saṅkhāra) you speak of are built up in the mind. It’s like when you are travelling slowly in a vehicle, you see things on the side of the road. When you see things slowly, you see some things not just as things, but as "beautiful." Or you see it as "amazing." In that process, a thought can arise to think about it further and make it "mine." Or, when you see certain things, a thought can arise with displeasure, and aversion (dvesha) can build up. That happens when the series of thoughts is moving along slowly. So what is the meaning of it moving at high speed? It means that we cannot grasp anything; the mind is just running on its own.

Layperson: Yes.

Monk: Like the wind just blows on its own.

Layperson: Another thing I realized now… this "person" called the mind, it's running at that speed because it is nourished by the data that I myself have fed it.

Monk: Can you see that a little? Meaning, you say the mind is running fast. And then you yourself say that it is running on the things I have fed it.

Layperson: Yes, Venerable Sir. It's because I went looking for one thing to analyze it that I realized that. Because the scenes in the chasing mind couldn't be seen

Monk: Ah, Right, take it this way: the meaning of "you see something" is that what you see is seen only through the data that you yourself have put in. What is seen... is your own stuff being seen. Grasp that point. Apart from that, there is the actual activity of the mind. That is very natural. Ah, it just exists as an energy. What we are meant to do is take that mind for our needs, use it, and then release it back into the mind's own speed.

Do you understand? In that process, if you feel to some extent that "I am seeing," then there must be some things that are being seen. Those things are, without fail, things that you yourself have created, things to which you have given value, either by accepting them or rejecting them. It's a collection of things to which you have assigned some kind of value that is being grasped there.

Layperson: Yes, Venerable Sir. Definitely. All of it. All of it becomes ours.

Monk: So what we say is, to just sit and observe them in that way is another kind of building of mental formations (saṅkhāra). Therefore, accept this: the mind is a natural thing. Like the sun, like the wind, like water, it is something that exists freely within its own identity. However, the mind that has descended into worldly affairs comes and gives you affliction, makes you weary, and just runs here and there within your world, among the things you have made "mine." So, this detached nature is what you have been observing, that it works at a high speed. It's not that it's working at high speed, but that it exists within the mind's natural speed. Now, if it works very slowly, then you yourself will observe that what it's doing is running here and there inside the world I have created, among the things I have made. If you only see the mind's speed, you don't need to make it a problem. If the mind is running around among those things, then you should discern that the mind is wandering around after a set of things I have made "mine." That is why I see it so clearly as a story.

Layperson: Yes, Venerable Sir.

Monk: Imagine you are travelling in a vehicle along a road. As you go along that road, you start to feel it, meaning the "story" of that road begins to appear. "Ah, here is that tamarind tree. Ah, this is where we used to stand waiting for a vehicle when we went to school." If you see a long story along that main road, it is a story that exists in your world. However, suppose you go to a completely different country, to a place you have never even seen before. You still see things. But there is no such thing as recognition. What does that mean? It means it's something I haven't yet made my own. If you want, you can, in the midst of that running mind, grab a piece of it, make it "mine," and decide "this should be the way I want it," and start corrupting it right there as well.

Layperson: That's what we do, Venerable Sir. For example, if I see an unfamiliar place in a foreign country, and I see it for the first time, I might suddenly think, "Ah, there was a place just like this on the road to our grandmother's house," and I instantly create it, don't I, Venerable Sir? You create it. You take the old data and create it. You create a mental fabrication (saṅskāra).

Monk: That is where the trouble lies. Now, what does that mean? In the very words you just used, there was the phrase "a place like the one on the road to our grandmother's house."

Layperson: Yes.

Monk: It is like that, but it is not that, is it?

Layperson: It's not that one. It's not.

Monk: In that case, what should you discern? The mind always runs through things that are relative, things that are "like." We can pull one thing into any thought and say it's "like the things in my world" and thereby make them mine. However, there is absolutely no need to do that. Let the mind be free. If you have some work to do, call it over here, get your work done, and then let it go, saying, "ah, now go and be free." If you enjoy it along with the forms you see, thinking "Ah, this is like that, how lovely, how beautiful,"... don't go to a place where you suffer by running around in that world of thoughts. The mind is there to make our lives beautiful, to beautify the necessary aspects of life, not to make our lives ugly because of thoughts.

Layperson: Yes, Venerable Sir. I was thinking, was I wrong? Am I mistaken? The Buddha said, "I have stopped, you too should stop," didn't he, Venerable Sir? So I wonder, this high-speed mind that I see, how do I stop it? That's a question for me.

Monk: In the sermons, now there must be 400 or 500 of them, what have I told people in every single one? Don't go trying to stop the mind. The mind is a natural phenomenon (dhammatā).

Layperson: Venerable Sir... Yes, Venerable Sir, you have said that. Yes, Venerable Sir, you have said that. But when I see it within myself, this... when I see this racing, this running of the swift mind that is out of control, the "scene" that I cannot catch... what I understood most was the analogy of looking back from a train on the tracks. When you see the scene, you can't catch the images. Even if it's an area we have seen before, we can't catch the scene, can we, Venerable Sir? It just goes by.

Monk: Okay, if that's the case, I will recommend something for you. There is something I understand here. That is, more than understanding the mind and giving it freedom, you prefer for the mind to be exactly the way you want it to be. You are in a place where you believe it should be so. For people like that, there are meditations (bhāvanā). But they are very temporary, you see. You will find in our discussions, there are people who have attained meditative states (jhāna) talking with us. They come to cry. Why is that? For a time when they were able, they could make the mind one-pointed, trap it in an object, or trap it in the concept of infinite space, or trap it in colors, or trap it in something, and during the time they could, they played that game and confined it to one area. Then a time comes when they can no longer do it. Then they come crying, "Oh, Venerable Sir, in the past I was in these jhāna levels, I lived very blissfully in these meditative states. Oh, Venerable Sir, now I can't stay like that anymore," they cry and ask why. So why is that? Is what they did the right thing? Or the wrong thing? This thing called the mind...

Layperson: Yes, it is... Yes, Venerable Sir.

Monk: If there is a certain capacity, it can be confined. But that is not valid forever. Without a doubt, when the time of death approaches, the mind will become agitated.

Layperson: Yes

Monk: That is because you went on the wrong path. That is why the Lord Buddha rejected that path of jhāna and chose this for Himself. That is why the Buddha is so special. He rejected the totality of what the whole world had approved of and delivered the middle path discourse. Confining the mind through jhāna and the pleasurable plane that it creates is one extreme. On the other side, there is the extreme of doing nothing and just letting the mind be, which exists with suffering. In the Lord Buddha's teaching, it is said that one must discern the nature of the mind and let the mind be free in its own nature. Discern the nature of the eye and let the eye be free in its own nature. Discern the nature of the ear and let the ear be free in its own nature. Do you understand?

Layperson: Yes

Monk: So, here, if you dislike the mind's running...

Layperson: No, Venerable Sir.

Monk: Ānāpāna...

Layperson: No, Venerable Sir. I...

Monk: meditation...

Layperson: No, Venerable Sir, I have not gone for meditation except when I was taken from school in my childhood when I didn't know any better. I am 63 years old now, and I haven't gone for such things. I haven't sought jhāna, Venerable Sir, nor have I sought path and fruition (mārgaphala), Venerable Sir. I have not done any of those things, Venerable Sir. What I was looking into was my mind... this thing called mind. I asked you, Venerable Sir, about this fast, running mind... it was something that was just running along. Many times, I just let it go. But when I was looking back, analyzing things based on sermons and so on, this is a place where I got stuck, Venerable Sir. I was thinking for many days that I should ask about this, and that is why I asked today, Venerable Sir.

Monk: Yes. In that situation, don't just let it go simply because it's running wild. You must arrive at that point through understanding. Okay? Meaning, not on my word, thinking, "Ah, since the Venerable Sir says so, let it go, there's no point in investigating it anymore." No, you yourself must see through understanding: "Is this thing called 'mind' something we can ever finish investigating?" You think, "I must investigate this object of thought that has arisen." In that very instant, see if that object of thought doesn't change. When our mind is building a thought about anything, I am here and I suddenly say, "I need to find out about that thing, about that object." Now, is the object of thought about that initial thing, or is it the object "I must find something out"? It switches from that to this, doesn't it?

Layperson: Yes, Venerable Sir.

Monk: Can we ever catch the nature of our mind?

Layperson: No, Venerable Sir.

Monk: In this very moment, it changes.

Layperson: It changes. Yes, everything changes. There isn't even time left to ask.

Monk: Exactly. Then you must discern that the mind is simply a natural phenomenon (dhammatā) that exists by changing its form in those places according to those causes. When the cause and effect break, this phenomenon also breaks. That's the point.

Layperson: Yes, yes, sir. It's like the wind. The nature of the wind is wind. Similarly, the nature of the mind... yes. Very well, Venerable Sir. So, having been freed from it there, having seen it...

Monk: How does one accomplish that act of seeing? We can't just think, "The mind should be free thus."

Layperson: No, it can't be done like that, Venerable Sir. I can't do it, Venerable Sir. It can't be done like that.

Monk: Nobody can do it. So, there is one thing, I will tell you. Now, how do we deal with that mind? The truth is, we, through various methods and manifold techniques, tried for a long time, suffering all the while, trying to make the mind's process conform to our wishes. What is the mind's process? There is happiness. We think happiness should last as we wish... it's a thought that lets us know there is happiness. And there are painful things. We think, "This suffering should not happen to me," and we try various methods to make it so. We tried to our utmost. But what we understood in the end was that as long as we keep trying, it's like wrapping ourselves in a Sil cloth (A white cloth worn by those who take precepts). The moment we let go, this thing runs in all four directions. So, one has to remain in a constant state of effort forever. But people who have gone all the way, even those on their deathbeds, say, "This cannot be done, Venerable Sir." So, what must be done? We find what the Lord Buddha did for this.

That is, this entire totality belongs to the domain of nature. This five-aggregate (pañcaskandhaya)-based system of sense spheres that we have created as "I" is not something I made; it arose naturally. I didn't get this by submitting an application. Where did it come from? It arose. Then, the mental nature, this thing called a mind, which is required for its well-being, is given to a body so that when hunger arises, a thought can guide the process to a good state and keep the body well. Similarly, when it gets extremely cold, thoughts say, "It is very cold now, you should cover this, control this." Likewise, when we integrate into society, society has taught us a "good" and a "bad" for the sake of its well-being. So then, in those situations, to be a good character, a character that doesn't trouble anyone; similarly, when society faces suffering, to intervene in those places to alleviate that suffering; if there is someone hungry, to intervene to give them some food—this entire process is activated within us by these things called thoughts. That is why a mind has been given to us by natural law (dhammatā). Apart from that, creating a "me" on one side and telling this mind, "You will stay as I say! No, you will only think the things I want!"... no matter how many rules we impose, that mind cannot be tamed by rules, or by a path of tranquility, or by a path of meditation (bhāvanā), or by any other path, and kept in one state. It's not like making a lime pickle, putting it in a jar so that air can't get in and it doesn't get moldy, and then using it as I please. No one can use the mind like that. That mind exists in freedom. We must accept that natural law (dhammatā) and arrange our lives in such a way that the mind becomes beautiful and I become beautiful because of the mind.

Layperson: Yes, Venerable Sir. That is where the most beautiful life is. The most beautiful place. Yes, Venerable Sir. For me to know that, it's from venerable sirs like you that we can hear and learn about this state. Venerable Sir... oh, please forgive me, I asked with such speed and intensity... yes, please forgive me. But it's from you, Venerable Sir, that I understood that state. Otherwise, I was clashing and grappling with it all by myself. I understand now, Venerable Sir. I am generally a happy person. I live happily.

Monk: In the same way, let the mind also live happily. The only thing to do is to let the mind be free. The ugly parts of the mind... if you come across such things, explain to that thought itself how ugly a thought it is.

Layperson: Oh, there are such things. There are plenty of such things. There are plenty of such things, Venerable Sir. When I see them, I think, "Am I of such a dirty nature? Is my mind this foul?"

Monk: Therefore, see that often. See that ugly nature often. And there will be some things that come to you continuously. Without mercy, tell another person, "My mind thinks such foul things." The mind hates and fears that.

Layperson: Oh, that is also true.

Monk: Yes, it fears exposure. Yes. But when that happens once or twice, this mind knows, "This won't do. I can't act crazy anymore. This fellow tells everyone about me. Therefore, I should behave in a more orderly fashion." Then that mind, which had a very ugly nature, gradually transforms into a wonderfully beautiful nature. In religions like Christianity, they call it confession. In our Buddhism, it is called confessing faults (āvath desanawā). It's called by such a good name. It is that noble an act—to reveal one's own ugly side. Not your bragging, mind you. Not "I am like this and like that." No, that makes you swell with pride, makes you a strange being. Not that. Your degenerate tendencies—when you find a spiritual friend (kalyāṇa-mitta) or a good friend, tell them everything.

Layperson: Today is the first time in my entire life, Venerable Sir, that I have said that—about my ugly mind. Until now, I have never told anyone. I kept it to myself, just watching it. That jealousy...

Monk: yes, yes, jealous traits, deceitful qualities…those things are there...

Original Source (Video):

Title: දුවන හිත අල්ලන්ඩ දුවනව ද? | ‪@dhammasiddhi‬

https://youtu.be/btO94ANHQwE?si=Qt9SS16fzCQUQRbj

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